Tuesday, September 23, 2008

Don't Eliminate Marriage For Anyone

This is the Thoron family, much like any other American family you've ever met; I highly encourage anyone reading this blog in California to vote "No" on the same sex marriage ban (Ballot 8):


Jeremy said...

Many people in my family are passionately proactive in their efforts to pass prop 8. This is something very odd for me to experience because of the amount of personal feelings attached with the idea of gay marriage that my family has. Generally i respect my families opinions and intelligence but here it seems obvious to me that they are coming from fear instead of logic. I wonder how accepted and loved my 19 yr old nephew feels after coming-out to a few of us last summer. Obviously not accepted enough because he has determined to "cure" himself of this affliction by enrolling in one of those retreats that help pray the gay outa ya. Damn shame. Damn fucking shame.

My question is this; why do my Republican/libertarian family members, who want as little Government control of the people as possible. Want to impose there personal beliefs on someone else.

...it's not like it's contagious.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for posting this.

I remember when I was younger, one day my father was talking with me in the Kitchen, and he asked if I had seen the movie Kinsey. I was like yeah it was great.

He then asked if I remembered the Kinsey scale.

I was like yeah what about it?

Well he then said he was a zero on the scale but it would be perfectly fine if I was anywhere else on the scale.

I don't understand why everyone can't be as understanding as that?

Anonymous said...

That last post was a great one, Anonymous. I think a lot of people forget or ignore that homosexuality is a dramatically different thing to different people. I don't know your cousin, Jeremy, but it could be that he legitimately feels his homosexual feelings come from something rooted deeper in his past... whether that's a singular moment, a sequence of decisions, whatever. If they are feelings that he really doesn't want, he shouldn't feel bad at all trying to get help for it.

Is it engrained in his DNA? Has he always felt this way? I don't know. I guess nobody does, really. So if he's only going to these retreats to appease other people... well, I'm glad he cares enough about them to try, but I would hope that his family wouldn't love him any less than if he were "faulty" in some other way.

Jeremy said...

one L Bill,

Thanks for responding to my post. I don't pretend to have the answers to your questions about what makes someone gay or lesbian, either DNA or environment, but I do believe we as humans can't control what or who we are attracted to.

With that said,I wish people in general didn't look at this as a problem that "needs fixing". My perfect scenario would be to have my nephew love himself and feel supported and accepted by his family no matter who he is sexually attracted to. But to be taught from a very young age, that God views you as a perverted sinner because of what sexually excites you, I see this as almost impossible.

IMO my nephew has enough to deal with without his own family members publicly chastising the gay community. It would only take a minute to internalize these opinions of judgment and hatred. The shame and self loathing must be almost unbearable. How else would a teenager interpret this other a personal defect that needs fixing?

IMO, the real sin is the judgement from others, not the act of gay sex. My heart goes to all gays and lesbians who have felt ostracized by their family, and even worse, their own God.

thanks for listening

Anonymous said...

We certainly agree that the judgment by others is an utter shame and travesty. I'd also agree that his own God probably does not view him as a "perverted" sinner. It may be sin, but it's still no worse than a laundry list of things about me. I disagree, and believe that we can control our sexual attractions on some level. I don't know where that stops, but I can point to specific ways my sexual appetite has been fed over the years and how that's formed who I am today. I can't say if that's the story with your nephew, but I don't think it's fair to say we can't control it at all.

Jeremy said...

I do agree with you when you say that we can control our sexual appetites to a point. Meaning I can choose not to partake (abstinence), but what excites us i believe is black and white. I myself have yet to become physically aroused while watching the movie 300 but I do believe quite a few others saw those Spartans quite sexually appealing.

My point is, the main control I see us having in our sexual life is frequency. I do agree one may also over indulge to where sex becomes unbalanced and an addiction. (thank god for the Internet) But I put these people in a separate categories that gays and lesbians.

It is just my belief that religious attitudes of condemnation toward Gays leads to more sexually deviant behavior in the world than two men being married and raising adopted children. We should all enjoy our sexuality to the fullest and never feel guilty for our own personal desires in the bedroom.

thanks for responding -ONE L BILL- and listening to my emotionally charged ramblings. i hope my

Anonymous said...

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on a few points... and that's fine. I disagree that religious attitudes lead to MORE sexual deviance. I also don't believe that legal gay marriage would lead to increased deviance. I think that people are going to be who they want to be despite what people say or mandate.

The other item we'll have to agree to disagree on is that of sexual preferences being black & white. I can clearly see how mine have adjusted over the years as I find myself attracted to one thing, which over time, breeds an attraction to another thing, which leads to another thing. I'd love to go into more detail on all this, but I fear it's not appropriate for this forum and certainly not for my wife's eyes/ears. I do think it's relevant and real, though not necessarily "one size fits all".

Woody (Tokin Librul/Rogue Scholar/ Helluvafella!) said...

Sex is sex. Everything else is adjectives.

Gay marriage is a plain, slam-dunk 14th Amendment gimme, and I do not understand why none of the efforts to legitimate gay marriage have NOT attacked on that point. States may not deny to some certain class of citizens rights and privileges the State bestows on any other class of citizens.